(But why do you keep proving my point about pronunciation, with each of the examples you cite!?) - connel MacKenzie 21:33, (UTC) jun-dai 00:26, (UTC) . I'm not trying to prove a specific point so much as arrive at what seems to me a plausible description of the truth. I have an idea of what that is, but if it's wrong, i'd very much like to be corrected. I haven't really proven your point as far as the first é in résumé is concerned. It's true that in all the words i've come up with an é at the end of the word, those é' s are pronounced -ay, but it's also true that in the two words I found that contain an é before the final position are. In addition to the two words I mentioned before, there is one pre-final é that i know of that is always pronouned "ay and that is in élan.
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Note: I would define "less common" in this situation as a count of all occurrences in printed, published texts particularly including the last century or two. connel MacKenzie 16:26, (UTC)Each of my three paper dictionaries list résumé as the primary listing and _both_ resumé and resume as alternate spellings. This is consistant with the etymology of the word, so i see no reason why wiktionary should deviate from that precident. As for the pronunciation, jun-dai: an example of where an accent makes an e into an '-ay' sound? thedaveross Part two edit jun-dai 19:56, (UTC) connel, you are right in pointing out that my google evidence is not strong. But I'd also like to point out it happens to be argument the only evidence outside of the dictionaries (which also stands in favor of my argument, and which is substantially better evidence). You seem to be the only person here arguing that resumé is as common or more common than résumé, and you haven't put forth a scrap of evidence for. This is not to say that i am 100 convinced that i am right and you are wrong, but what evidence we do have seems to be pointing in the same direction. So maybe like 90 Thedaveross, i recognize that it is pronounced that way and that there is (sometimes) and accent there, much like café and the erroneous latté, but there are many words with accents over the e that do not have that -ay pronunciation. I have not done my homework adequately - i shall try to make it to the local library today before it closes.
It seems pretty clear at this point that resumé is the less common of summary the three spellings, yet it exists commonly enough to deserve mention. I am currently trying to let the ideas on this page, particularly connel's, percolate in my head before i take a stab at doing a draft of a usage note for this entry. Or maybe we should have a usage page for this issue, since it does involve three separate articles, and it delves into issues that involve whole sections of the English lexicon (i.e., the rôle of funny letter-markings in the English language). We clearly need a place to include the various arguments for and against certain usages, like a wikipedia article (but I fear that we would get laughed at if we tried to pollute the wikipedia with these articles). I think that we managed to do a pretty good job of microcosmically representing all sides of the large wave issue, and it's a shame that little to none of those points are visible outside of our talk space. Another way to put this is that we need to begin representing prescriptivist notions of language, and we should present them as such. Jun-dai i strongly disagree that "resumé" is the less common: ocr'ed texts will also have this auto-mangled to "résumé" even if the text itself correctly has "resumé." so all historic texts referenced need to be physical texts, not on-line (suspect) converted texts, or images.
I looked up "resumé" in the latest edition of the largest version of each publisher's dictionary. Only one contained "resumé". I think it was houghton-Mifflin or American Heritage. I think this alone is enough for us to include. More interesting was the style-guide, the cambridge guide to English Usage by pam Peters, published by cambridge University Press in 2004. It recommends "resumé" as the best spelling of the three variants. It cited the "New Oxford" table as also giving this spelling. It seems the "New Oxford" was not amongst the dictionaries I looked. ( google Print makes some of this book readable from the internet, including an entry on accents and diacritics, but not the entry on "resume" and its variants.) — hippietrail 08:15, (UTC) jun-dai 06:51, (UTC) i think we letter need a space to vent our prescriptivist.
Jun-dai oh ! It should have been Media:en-us-resumé. connel MacKenzie 21:33, (UTC)my enquiries have produced: The concise Oxford English Dictionary, 11th edition, 2004: résumé rɛzjʊmeɪ/ The Oxford American Dictionary of Current English, first published 1999: résumé /rézomay/. (also resumé, resume) The Oxford Dictionary of English, 2nd edition 2003: same. The Advanced learner's Dictionary of Current English, Oxford University Press, 2nd edition, 1963: résumé 'rɛzju meɪ, french: rezyme All of these are Oxford ones; will try to check others. My personal opinion is (which I have already had when I checked the dictionaries) that "résumé" is the only correct spelling. Ncik i do not see how citing current editions refute the fact that the error that started "recently" ( 20 years) is propagating. And of course the French instruction book would use the French variation. connel MacKenzie 06:34, (UTC) Yesterday i spent some hours in bookshops but without taking too many obvious notes.
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I'm not sure about the 2ary stress so i left it out. Nobody digital pronounces the 2nd vowel as /ʊ/ (the sound in "book but always as /ə/ (the sound in "the. The 3rd pronunciation (with /ʒ may well be considered incorrect. The 2nd probably sounds American to some australians. — hippietrail 04:25, jeans (UTC). I was spelling out that fake pronunciation to illustrate the absurdity of spelling the word with two accents.
I haven't a clue what the second syllable's ipa symbol should. I was trying to emphasise the first syllable, particularly in contrast to the last. I do not recall hearing any difference in the British pronunciation of the word, but ukers might hear a subtle difference in the American pronunciation (but I doubt.) I still can't read ipa symbols, and i am too burnt out at the moment. connel MacKenzie 05:32, (UTC) Hmmm. Here's a pronunciation soundfile test. connel MacKenzie 06:02, (UTC) jun-dai 06:46, (UTC) That seems to be in accordance with how i've heard it pronounced.
That the doubly accented version came to be accepted due to a mistake (I'd love to see a citation for this, by the way isn't really relevant - probably the bulk of the spellings in the English language came about due to mistakes of one. That said, the main things that concern me are: (1) How is it used/accepted today? And (2) what is the best spelling for the consistency of the English language? I believe that the answer to the first question is: all three; with the added note that using either the singly accented version or the doubly accented version could cause you to be corrected by someone, and that the only apparently uncontentious spelling is with. The answer to the second question is, imo, that the word should either be spelled with two accents (preferably in italics, like à la to retain the borrowing, or with no accents at all. Using a single accent falsely indicates that the final syllable should be accented (i've never heard the word pronounced that way-the accent is always on the first syllable).
More importantly, diacritical marks don't really exist in the English language, except for borrowed words, and it seems strange to me to borrow one accent and not the other. But this is all related to the second, prescriptive point; in the descriptive view, clearly all three spellings are correct, and the use of any accents is contentious. If you think i've proved your point above, then you've misunderstood my posting. Jun-dai jun-dai 07:13, (UTC) Incidentally, i don't know why i haven't checked until now, but my webster's seventh Collegiate (the only physical e- e dictionary i own) lists only the doubly accented version ( résumé ) and the unaccented version. I had to check twice to be sure. This would indicate that the notion that it is correct with two accents (and the corollary that it is incorrect with only one accent) has at least some support from decades ago, and it would seem pretty strong evidence against the notion that the propagation. Keep in mind that this is a fairly liberal and descriptivist dictionary - they even have the word irregardless. Jun-dai these pronunciations don't look like what i've heard anywhere in Australia. The possibilities would be /rezjəmeɪ /rezəmeɪ and /reʒəmeɪ/.
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The single accented spelling was for essay many decades, the only correct spelling. That has only changed recently (in the last 20 years.). Connel MacKenzie 06:40, (UTC) jun-dai 05:04, (UTC) my confusion has to do with the connection you've made between the accent mark(s) and the pronunciation. Jun-dai well, it's hard to assert that it's a connection. It is an aspect of the language. And the fact remains, the double accented word (prior to word-processing programs) was only a french word, while the single accented spelling has been adopted by American English for much, much longer. The double accented version is being accepted only because of a mistake, that has propogated. connel MacKenzie 05:32, (UTC) jun-dai 07:07, (UTC) It is a connection you've made. You seem to think that an accent over the first e would indicate that the first syllable should be pronounced "ray and i've never seen anything in the English language that would be consistent with that theory.
Café-or that it is to be accented). Thus, seeing an accent over the first e would not indicate to me that it was supposed to be pronounced "RAY." rather than "rɘz. and so i don't understand resume your confusion regarding that issue. Jun-dai you say you've never observed any precedent, then cite an example that proves it!? Thank you for proving my point! Artisté is perhaps another example. Connel MacKenzie 05:32, (UTC)I do not understand what you are confused about.
is the norm, making the retention of the single accent doubly bad/misleading. Jun-dai sorry for not adhering to a standard ahd form for pronunciations. I wasn't showing the accent, i was trying to spell the pronunciation (in particular, the first sylable.). Never pronounced "RAY" only "rɘz". "RAY" rhymes with "MAY" was what the very first sentence above was trying to illustrate. That is why historically, in America, the single accented version was for decades, the only acceptable spelling. This has only changed as a result of popular word-processors "auto-correcting" it to the incorrect spelling. Connel MacKenzie 06:05, (UTC) jun-dai 06:36, (UTC) I think my confusion has to do with the fact that i've never observed any precedent in the English language where accents dictate the way a vowel is supposed to be pronounced (as opposed to cases where accents.
I do not wish to eliminate the two-accented variation, but I feel very strongly that is should be cautioned against prescriptively. Way back in the 1980s, when computer access was rare in the mainstream, the single accented variation was the only varient i ever saw. As a result of computer proliferation, combined with misunderstanding, the French word began to pass spell check programs (incorrectly) and the new spelling variation became common. I don't think the method of its (the incorrect spelling variation) introduction validates its improper use. Therefore, it should (imho) be cautioned against, and the original spelling (with one e accented) emphasised as essays the recommended spelling. Connel MacKenzie 20:03, (UTC) jun-dai 20:25, (UTC) That does clear things up, but I still disagree with your recommendation. I would actually caution against the single-accented variation, because i think it is an inconsistent and undesired approach to the use of accents in the English language. Given that retaining diacritical marks in borrowed words (and only in borrowed words, as far as i know) is an established convention, however, i stand by the recommendation of the doubly-accented version as an alternative to the unaccented version (though for descriptive purposes we should.
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Resume edit, i've never in my life heard this pronounced ray-zoo-may, only rez-ooh-may. The accent belongs only on reviews the second e, as the Englishizing of the French word carried over an accent to convey the correct pronunciation. A problem with a microsoft Word spell correction in the mid 1990s (apparently) has propogated the incorrect spelling (with both Es accented.). This whole page should be moved. The French word résumé (from résumér?) should be here, but for English, only a redirect to the correct spelling. Connel MacKenzie jun-dai 19:12, (UTC) I disagree quite strongly. As accents are not really part of the English language, except for the case of borrowed words, i think it is only really appropriate to either retain both accents (helping to indicate its status as a borrowed word) or neither accent (bringing it fully into. That said, given that there are definitely examples of it being used with only one accent (the second one it is appropriate for a dictionary resource to have all three variations, though there's plenty of room for us to fight about which one should. Jun-dai rereading my little rant, i see i was perhaps unclear.